Lunch With Sandy
Welcome to the "Lunch With Sandy" podcast, where we serve up candid conversations seasoned with humor and insight. Join us as we delve into much-needed discussions, sprinkled with our unique sense of humor. On the menu, you'll find a variety of topics, from conflict resolution to navigating tricky questions with grace. We also explore current events, sharing our perspectives on the everyday trials and triumphs. So pull up a chair, grab a plate, and enjoy the feast of conversation.
Lunch With Sandy
Rethinking 'Till Death Do Us Part': The Case for Term Marriages
Are lifelong vows in marriage a one-size-fits-all solution, or could it be time for a marital revolution? Sandy and I embark on an unguarded journey through the complexities of matrimony, questioning the conventional 'till death do us part' adage that has anchored the institution for centuries. Our candid discussion on term marriages investigates whether a set duration for marital bonds might just be the refurbishment needed for modern relationships, offering couples the chance to renew or respectfully part ways as they evolve.
Imagine marriage as a service contract, complete with renewal options - how would that reshape our approach to commitment and the societal views on being single or divorced? We dive into the mechanics of term-limited marriages, pondering if this could be the antidote to the stigma of separation and how it might transform the emotional toll of divorce. This provocative conversation examines if such flexibility could encourage couples to invest more purposefully in their relationships, with the understanding that an assessment point is on the horizon.
Wrapping up this thought-provoking episode, we navigate the practical and emotional landscapes of term marriages, from the impact on children and pets to the potential advantages of pre-agreed separation terms. This dialogue invites you to challenge traditional paradigms and consider if a term framework could lead to more intentional partnership investments, fostering happiness and growth that last far beyond the terms of a marriage contract. Join us as we unravel whether term marriages could hold the key to evolving the concept of lifelong partnership in today's dynamic world.
In a relationship, when is honesty not the best policy? How do you balance what you want versus what you need, and is there something you need to say to your spouse but can't find the right way to say it? If so, then you're in the right place. This is the Lunch with Sandy podcast. With nearly 20 years of marriage under their belts, Terrance and Sandy Jackson discuss a range of topics, provide valuable insights on relationships and talk about the conversations married couples need to have. So what does lunch have to do with all of this? Well, it's a metaphor for how these conversations originally started. Speaking of conversations, let's get one going. Here's your hosts, Terrance and Sandy.
Terrance:Welcome to another episode of the Lunch with Sandy podcast, where we delve into various topics and offer insight from the perspective of a married couple. I'm Terrance.
Sandy:And I'm Sandy.
Terrance:And today I want to introduce a concept that I thought that I came up with, but after some research I found that somebody else had talked about it before, and that is the concept of a term marriage. That somebody else had talked about it before and that is the concept of a term marriage. But before we get into that, please remember to follow the lunch with sandy podcast on your favorite podcasting app. Also, make sure you go ahead and follow us on all social media at lunch with sandy sandy. Why are you looking at me like that?
Sandy:how am I looking at you?
Terrance:you're looking at me like I don't know. You got something to say, but you don't know what it is oh no, my leg hurts.
Sandy:I don't know. Back-to-back weeks of over seven miles.
Terrance:I guess you're getting old, I don't think you should be running seven miles. Listen, not everybody can be vintage like me. Not everybody can age like a fine wine like me.
Sandy:You don't even like wine. You're not a fine wine.
Terrance:I didn't say drinking fine wine, I said age like a fine wine, you have to drink the wine to age like a fine wine. No, that's not true.
Sandy:That's true.
Terrance:You have to drink the wine to be a wino. Nope, nope, because you need that alcohol content so you can get alcohol content from many other things other than wine, and I don't want to go too far left with your conversation just look, you cannot be like me, and always you're over there. You're breaking down stop running seven miles if it's gonna put you in the position that you're in right now. I don't like the way you're looking at me.
Terrance:I don't know well, you shouldn't, at this point, looking at you but you start talking about your leg hurting and all this other stuff anyway, sounds like you're making fun of my medical condition I don't know what medical condition you have.
Sandy:My compartment syndrome. That's why my leg hurts.
Terrance:I'm not making fun of anyone's medical condition and at this point we're just going to move on. We're not even going to ask Sandy how she's doing anymore. We know that she's ailing, she's old and she's falling apart. Yep See, this is a perfect example of how marriage is a beautiful thing. We talk about it all the time, but as much as as bickering.
Sandy:Well, I mean, listen, that wasn't bickering that was banter.
Terrance:There's a big difference. Okay, that was banter, back and forth. Now there are a lot of situations or a lot of marriages that are in situations where people do a lot of bickering and that bickering can lead to divorce.
Sandy:Yep.
Terrance:Did you know that in the United States the divorce rate is around 50%?
Sandy:Yeah.
Terrance:That is crazy. That's like flipping a coin when you get married. While you walk up there, you flip that coin. We're going to make it or we're not gonna make it that's essentially what it is heads and tails heads.
Terrance:We keep it going tails. We don't. Now, you know, traditionally and I know that from your perspective and your religion you know your idea of marriage is a very traditional uh idea behind marriage. But traditionally marriage is a lifelong commitment. So all these people out there flipping the coin and it's going tails, they're not following along or they're not going down that path of that lifelong commitment.
Sandy:Or they just decide to yeah, just find a new one. Well, I mean listen.
Terrance:so it's funny because you know, as part of your vows you know you say until death, do us part, and that is supposed to reaffirm that commitment.
Sandy:I wonder if all marriage vows do that.
Terrance:So we're going to get into that for a second, but let me ask you this I already know your answer to this.
Sandy:You follow the path of someone who is going down the traditional marriage route.
Terrance:So how do you think you avoid the pitfalls of not being in a situation where it's not until death. Do you part?
Sandy:Just don't get married, then you're not saying any vows.
Terrance:Well, see, now I, in my infinite wisdom, have come up with an alternative.
Sandy:Okay.
Terrance:So this is the time of year where we're getting close to the end of our fiscal and as we get close to the end of the fiscal, there are a lot of contracts that we have to renew for a number of different things warranty, support services and all of those things.
Terrance:And I got the thinking what if marriage was termed Two people come together? Because, think about it, when it comes down to it, marriage can be boiled down to its bare essentials as a contract between two people. There's legal aspects to it From the perspective of ramifications. If you decide to do something you ain't supposed to do and you know now, you got to go through that whole process of getting out with it. But if it was a term, what happens is at the end of that term, like all the contracts that we're currently renewing, we look back at that service and we decide is service well, is this? Well, listen, I'm not talking about servicing nobody over here, I'm talking about at some point, before you renew that contract, you look back and see if the value is actually worth it for that actual contract it's almost like a prenup with a probationary well.
Terrance:So listen what I'm what I'm trying to say is most contracts have a term limit, yeah, and you may get into a contract and be extremely happy with it and you plan on renewing over and, over and over. But you may get into a contract and after a year, realize that the service sucks, and if that's the case, you're not going to actually renew it. So do you think that there are some people out there who would consider a term agreement when it comes to marriage for a certain number of years?
Sandy:Yeah, well, I guess, why not right? If you guys can just sit down, what?
Terrance:do you mean you guys?
Sandy:If you guys can just sit down, what do you mean, you guys? What I mean? The people who apparently would, you know, be the proponent of a term contract. Not you specifically, but you know. Imagine this you know, in Rhode Island, if it's not me, it's you guys.
Terrance:Imagine this you walk up to the altar and instead of saying until death, do us part, you say until 2027. Upon which date we will decide whether or not we will renew our vows. Here's the thing. You know how you're always talking about.
Sandy:Every time you renew your vows Exactly Now.
Terrance:It may get a little expensive, depending on who's paying for it.
Sandy:Well, you don't have to have a huge party.
Terrance:It can just be a party. You always talk about. You want to renew your vows.
Sandy:Well, that's because you know, the wedding day just goes by so fast that Well, it goes by so fast and it costs a lot of money.
Terrance:Anyway, I think that. I think obviously there's some logistics that you know you got to get to, but we're going to get into that in a minute.
Sandy:But yeah, I think if you can sit down rationally and talk about things in advance and then just say, okay, in five years we're going to reassess the situation.
Terrance:I think that there are certain people who would jump at that opportunity, right. And again, I think there's some things that you have to consider. But when you look at it, I say I was saying this the other day life's about options, right. One of the things that, as you start to mature into an adult, you start to think about is, once you get a family and things going, you start to think about insurance life insurance, right, and what types of life insurance? What are the two primary types of life insurance that are out there?
Sandy:Yeah, there's life, whole life Term.
Terrance:And term life. So why can't there be two types of marriages out there?
Sandy:Whole life.
Terrance:Whole life and term life and term life. So look, when I think about this concept and you know it's funny because, like I said, I had this idea and I was like, oh, I don't think anyone else has thought about this, and I did some research and there were two people who actually had, at least online, wrote something about the idea of a term marriage I think that there's some benefits that can come out of a term marriage and I think the first, I think the biggest actually is I think a term marriage could decrease the the impact of divorce and the stigma that it actually brings. And I'll tell you why In many cases, right, two people, they go, they get married. It don't work out, they get divorced. Now they're divorcees, is it not true? They got that label that's on them.
Sandy:Yeah.
Terrance:And when you say, oh, I'm divorced, people might not say it out loud, but they start to think, oh well, what'd you do? Or what happened? Yeah, there is a negative connotation when you start talking about divorce. Now think about it from this perspective If I say I do until 2026.
Sandy:Yeah.
Terrance:And I live out that. You know we work out through that term and there's an expiration date.
Sandy:Single again. Huh, I said, do you just so, instead of saying divorcee, are you just single again?
Terrance:I'm single. The contract ran out. We didn't renew.
Sandy:Listen, I was recently in a term marriage, but we decided to not renew that contract.
Terrance:If there's a predetermined point and you get the opportunity to review the relationship right and you understand that things evolve and things change over time, If those changes don't fit who you are or they don't fit you know the construct of the relationship, again you just agree to go your separate ways and it's not. It's not really a divorce because, again, we got married until this date and once that date comes it dissolves. Now I get it there's. I know it's simpler than that, but from the perspective of that impact of saying, oh, I'm divorced, you just say, nah, I'm saying, oh, I'm divorced, you just say, now I'm free, I'm single again yeah, well, it makes me think about, you know, even with employers having a year-end performance review.
Sandy:So instead of a year-end performance review, it's a end of contract performance review.
Terrance:now you coming around because you have to have that end of I'm trying to. I got to come up with a term for it that it's your current relationship score. If your current relationship score does not reach a particular level that the parties agree upon beforehand, that opens the door to end the relationship. Now you can obviously decide whether or not you want to continue with it with within, to continue with the marriage, but if your scores ain't cutting it, you don't pass maybe there's language that says, if the score doesn't cut it, you, you don't go a full five, 10 years or something.
Terrance:Now we're going to get into we can talk about some of the details that you have to think about.
Sandy:But I think one of the benefits is is right when emotion gets involved is usually where it gets a little dicey.
Terrance:This will reduce emotion.
Sandy:Right. So if you're working out this term contract, you know you're taking the emotion out because both parties are content at that moment in time and you know nobody's trying to.
Terrance:You know when you know that there is a upset at the other one when you know that there is an end date or an expiration date on your, on your relationship, on your marriage, and you know that the service just ain't there. It is a. It is a relief, it's an, it's a most. It removes any emotional burden. It's a relief because now you know, okay, well, this thing that I'm in sucks, but guess what? It's coming to an end so it's.
Sandy:It's funny because it does make me think. Would it actually cause people to, you know, not renew their term? Like hey, this is not working out, where maybe some people tend to stay together longer in marriages, thinking that like, okay, well, we're going to really work harder and everything for it, but knowing to the point that like listen, this contract is over in five years, like we already made that decision, like there's no point in trying to renew this?
Terrance:Well, I think it depends on a big part of it does depend on how the relationship is Right.
Terrance:You know for a fact that there are people who try to make a relationship work for whether it be for societal reasons, whether it be from pressure from from family or peers, and so they put in this effort to try to actually make it work. When they're not doing it because the relationship score has reached the number that it should have reached, they're doing it because there's outside pressure. Now, when you're in this situation where you know that there is actually an end date and again you're in a situation that is just not working for you, it can be a relief because now you know hey, listen.
Sandy:Like right, I'm out.
Terrance:I'm out on this date, it's done and the thing about that is it can make it more amicable for both parties, because you both know that this date is actually coming up.
Sandy:Yeah.
Terrance:And you don't have to go through that emotional stress like you would if there was actually a divorce. When you're in a situation and you're in a traditional marriage and you get a divorce, nobody plans for the divorce. You don't go in and say when we get divorced, it's this. However, when you start talking about a term marriage, now there's things that you actually have to consider and we'll talk about you know some of those things in a minute, but the other thing that this actually does for you is it does give you a lot of flexibility, right? So when I say flexibility, I mean you always have the opportunity to reassess and renegotiate once that term actually comes up. Let's say, you want to actually continue once your expiration date comes up, but there are certain things that you feel just weren't right or certain areas where someone needs to work to get that score up.
Sandy:Yeah.
Terrance:Go to the negotiating table.
Sandy:Or it sounded like a good idea when you thought of it, and maybe it's not practical.
Terrance:Yeah, I mean, if you're satisfied at the end of the term, you can keep going.
Sandy:It kind of makes me think of, like the Big Bang Theory and the Roommate agreement If you're satisfied at the end of the term, you can keep going.
Terrance:Kind of makes me think of like the Big Bang Theory and the roommate agreement. I believe he also did have a girlfriend agreement too. I think he did.
Sandy:But yeah, well, honestly, I think any agreement is not a bad idea, because it really has you thinking about things in advance of that's a great example, because you know what, when you get all lovey-dovey and get married, you don't think about a lot of things.
Announcer:Well.
Terrance:I don't want to say you don't think about a lot of things, you don't plan for a lot of things.
Sandy:Right, all the things we plan for in life. Yeah, it's not one of those things that we do plan for you think about it. We do trusts, we do wills, like. There's so many other type of agreements and legal documents that we put together that, yeah, marriage is not even one of them, which should be like one of the most important ones.
Terrance:Yeah, and I think that you touched on it earlier. When you have see, I'm bringing you over. It's funny because I'll be at work and I have all these ideas and these ideas. Some of them are moneymakers, but people don't want to get on board, they don't, they're shy about pulling the trigger. Term marriages I'm going to tell you right now they're going to start taking off. People are going to hear this. They're going to, they're gonna start taking off. Now, again, there has to be a lot more planning when you talk about a term marriage because, again, if you already know that there's an expiration date, you got to start planning for that expiration date do you have like an executor, like you do for a while, like a third party to just handle everything, so you don't even have to communicate?
Terrance:with one another if you don't want to, and so I'm not going to pretend like there are not some challenges, right, but again, I look at every challenge as an actual opportunity. So what type of challenges? And you started to mention one or two of them, but what type of challenges do you think that you would have if you know, you decided to adopt this concept of term marriage?
Sandy:Well, I think the biggest challenge is, honestly, if you end up having kids in that first, you know, so maybe that's part of the agreement is that you shouldn't have kids before the first renewal period.
Terrance:Here's the thing you brought up a very, very good point, and what I would say is I would say that you have to talk about your actual plan, and you would not just talking about the actual plan but actually planning, because, again, how long is the term that I'm committed to? And during that initial term, have we had the conversation about children? And, additionally, even if you haven't had the conversation about children, you have to plan for what happens if Because, when I look at it, I do say, well, the biggest challenge would be would be children, but at the same time, people get married all the time and they don't stay together, yeah, they get divorced and they actually have children.
Sandy:It's not like it's not doable, but I think it's just easier so that you're not going through like any kind of custody situation if you have it ironed out already in advance, you know.
Terrance:Yeah, and I think that the other part about it too is you know, you always have to consider the impact on the children. And that's not just for a term marriage, because when you think about it you know what a divorce is. It's just a traditional marriage that was forced to be termed. I mean, think about it.
Terrance:It's not termed for one reason or another, it's a unplanned termed marriage, and so when you start thinking about the impact that it can have on the kids, you know it's really the same thing, I think. From the perspective of if a split is amicable, I think it's a little easier on the children because now it's amicable, they don't see any of the vitriol that might be spewed between the two parties. But that would be a challenge when you start considering.
Sandy:I think it's a challenge and a benefit, because I feel like with the unplanned term of the marriage there tends to be less amicability, especially oh yeah, well, you know especially if it's one party more than the other that wishes to term the marriage. You know what I mean if they both realize that it's it's the best thing to do. I know I I've seen plenty of you know marriages that way, but I can't say that it's what I've seen as the majority.
Announcer:Yeah.
Sandy:I feel like the majority is the other, where it's not so pretty and nice and easy.
Terrance:Yeah. So one of the things that I always think about is, again, there are so many people who decide to get divorced, and whether or not you're in a situation where you're in a term marriage, where you can decide whether or not you want to renegotiate or renew a contract, and you're at the table, or you both say, hey, listen, this isn't working out, and you walk away, you know on your own terms, I still think that that's better than just coming up and saying, ah, you know what I'm out.
Sandy:So, and then I would say too, with the kids, there's also the pets. Well, again who gets Jack?
Terrance:This gives you the opportunity to plan for those things, I think that would not be a pretty fight on who gets Jack. I don't think that there's a choice. I think Jack's is walking out the door with me.
Sandy:Yeah, no, I don't think that there's a choice.
Terrance:I think Jax is walking out the door with me, yeah, no, I don't think so, as he's looking at me right now.
Sandy:As he's looking at you and as he was waking me up this morning.
Terrance:I think another challenge that would be secondary to the impact on kids and I only say secondary because if you have kids then you really got to be careful with that and that is Because you have that third person to really think about.
Terrance:Yeah, and that is the whole the commitment aspect of it. Yeah, now if you're in a situation where you say, okay, well, you know what I do until 2027. Are you looking to the future and saying I'm only doing this for this many years and you're not really buying into the concept of a term marriage from the perspective of, ok, well, we're in love, we want to do this, but we know that things change. So let's commit to this amount of time and you know if it works. Great. If there's some things that we have to work on, we can bring those to the, to the negotiating table and move on. Or you just say, yeah, you know what, I'm married, but in three years a brother's out well, maybe that's something that you stipulate in the contract is all the the renewal periods well, I mean, here's the thing you know.
Sandy:You can't put that in the contract, because the contract is only for a set period of time yeah, but if you choose to renew, like these are your options for renewal in the future, like first ones in five years, then it's 10, then another 10 yeah, but after the, after the first one, you just don't renew when you're out yeah but I don't know, like now.
Terrance:Here's the thing a term marriage doesn't stop you from it. It should decrease the chances of divorce, but it's not going to stop someone getting divorced. I don't know particularly, you might be in a situation where let's say lack of commitment I'm saying, yeah, lack of equipment.
Terrance:A it's just one of those things where someone is vibing with someone, yeah, At the time when they enter into this agreement, and you know they're entering into the agreement with the understanding that you know what I'm going to do this, because you know he or she wants to do this, but you know it's only for this amount of time.
Terrance:So after this time, yeah, I'll be out and that, and in those situations they may not be willing to work through any small issues that actually may come up, because they know that there's an expiration date right?
Sandy:well, honestly, yeah, so for me I wouldn't get too emotionally invested in the relationship. Ah see, now, you're not buying into the true concept of a term marriage. Yeah, well, that's just how I would, because I don't want to get my feelings hurt. Well, here's the thing.
Terrance:At the end. See now. What I'm learning is this you have to be a very self-confident, self-confident, mature person to enter into a term marriage.
Sandy:So are you calling me not self-confident or not mature? No, no, no, no, no.
Terrance:Here's what I mean by this. When I talk about this term, I'm talking about it from the perspective of okay, we see what's happening with marriages throughout this country. We see that they're failing at a very, very high rate. Now we would all like to say that we're actually different. But what if we're not? So let's go into this and say here's what we're going to do. We want to be committed to each other, we want to spend the rest of our lives with each other, but let's block this amount of time out and say we are going to commit to be married for this period of time and hopefully it's all that it's all cracked up to be. We can work through things and all this other stuff, but if it's not and we're just like everybody else, we walk away.
Sandy:Well, I guess we would need a case study for the first one, to figure out how it works.
Terrance:You don't need no case study. It's all based on listen. It's really, it's a termed. Marriage is not a get out of jail free card. You can't look at it that way. I mean, eventually it is, but it's not something where you're going to say, hey, listen, I'm only doing this, although people will, because I know I'm going to get out of it.
Terrance:It's one of those things where you're saying I love this person, but I know that this person might change. I might change the environment, environmental factors around us might change, work might change and it might drive us apart. Those are all questions that we don't know. So let's prepare for that by saying let's do this for this many years and hopefully we can renew and renew, and renew and renew. But let's do this for this many years and let's hope that these are the best three years that we've ever had, and then, when it comes up, boom, we do it again, and then we do it again.
Terrance:That's the concept. It's not ah, you know what? I'm going to get married for three years and be out. It's really looking at making sure that one, two people who are getting married really know and understand each other and they have the time to say, okay, well, we're going to give this a real shot and if it doesn't work, then at that renewal period we walk away and you plan for it by making sure that when you get involved in this, knowing that there's an end date, you do all the necessary things. You know whether it be and this is this is this is a challenge too, because you've got to think about this stuff up front. All the legal complexities that you have to be concerned with, all the financial complexities that you would have to be concerned with during a divorce, you plan for that prior to getting into the actual term marriage. You've got to actually plan for that.
Sandy:End of term party.
Terrance:There you go. End of term party. You know what I plan for that? End of term party. Yeah, you got to end the term party. You know what I mean? See, now you're living it up.
Sandy:One last hurrah altogether before the term ends.
Terrance:Yeah. So I say all that and that leads me to one final challenge that I think that has to be considered, and that is differing expectations between two people, right? So I see, when I talk about this concept, the concept that I'm coming up with, it's not so much where, hey, I'm going to get married for three years and be out, it's okay. Well, I understand that a relationship is all about work. I understand that I can't change people, but I do understand that as human beings, as individuals, as couples, we grow and evolve and something might cause us to actually grow apart. And I'm going to put in all the work to keep us together If the other person is going to put in the work, or maybe they won't put in the work, but at the end of the day, when we get to that renewal period and we look at the relationship score, if it's not where it needs to be, we got the decision to actually be out. Now, if I'm thinking that way and you're thinking, nah, I'm just doing this bid.
Terrance:I'm just, I'm going to do this, I'm going to do this quick bid and then I'm going to be out. Yeah, then you know that's a challenge, because now that person's not looking at it. You're looking at the concept of a term marriage the same way as you are, and they're only in it just because they want to do their bucket list two, three years exactly, or or their bucket list I want to get married and then be out.
Sandy:I well, I think you have to require marriage counseling.
Terrance:That's not a bad idea.
Sandy:Before the term ceases and you have to have conversations like six to 12 months in advance Like a progress report.
Terrance:Well, I think the first thing is when you your term shouldn't be a year. No, I think the initial term should be three to five years.
Sandy:Should be like progress reports along the way, to make sure that you're still seeing eye to eye.
Terrance:Listen, I'm all about it. You got to start working on these things.
Sandy:Like a report card and just find out if you actually pass to the next level.
Terrance:Well, I think that all those things actually make sense. I think that in order to be in the term marriage, you have to start thinking about all those things. I do think that you know this concept would change the way that people actually think about marriage Right. People actually think about marriage Right and I think that in many cases people would put more thought into okay, what are the what ifs?
Sandy:Yeah, how many times did you go to bed? Man at each other. You have to reduce your total score by that many.
Terrance:Oh goodness, all right, we're going to wrap this up because we can go on. What ifs? You know what I mean? Yeah, we can go on all day with all of those things. So, essentially, the key to success in any relationship lies in the ability to prioritize the wellbeing and happiness of both parties involved. It requires communication, honesty, fostering that connection and the continual nurturing of each relationship over time, whether it be traditional or a term marriage. Marriage takes work. The goal is to promote healthy, fulfilling relationships based on mutual respect, communication and shared understanding, and if you can accomplish this, your union has the potential to last a very, very long time. Thank you for joining us on the Lunch with Sandy podcast. Please be sure to follow us and leave feedback on your favorite podcasting app, as well as social media, at Lunch with Sandy. Until next time, stay well.
Announcer:That's it for this week's episode of the Lunch with Sandy podcast. Thanks for listening. We'd love to hear your feedback and comments on Instagram, TikTok and Twitter at Lunch with Sandy, and be sure to follow us on your favorite podcast app. If you enjoyed the show, don't forget to rate and review us. Thanks again for listening to the Lunch with Sandy podcast.
