Lunch With Sandy
Welcome to the "Lunch With Sandy" podcast, where we serve up candid conversations seasoned with humor and insight. Join us as we delve into much-needed discussions, sprinkled with our unique sense of humor. On the menu, you'll find a variety of topics, from conflict resolution to navigating tricky questions with grace. We also explore current events, sharing our perspectives on the everyday trials and triumphs. So pull up a chair, grab a plate, and enjoy the feast of conversation.
Lunch With Sandy
The Shades of Betrayal: Journey Through Infidelity and Healing
Have you ever found yourself questioning where the line is drawn in the sand when it comes to marital fidelity? Join us, as we navigate the emotionally charged waters of infidelity in marriage, offering a beacon of understanding in the storm of heartbreak and healing. We're discussing the various forms cheating can take, from the clear-cut physical affairs to the emotional entanglements and secretive online connections that test the boundaries of trust.
Betrayal in a marriage isn't a black and white scenario; it's a spectrum that can leave even the strongest bonds frayed. Throughout our conversation, we address the controversial 'work spouse' phenomenon, debate the reasons behind infidelity, and consider whether emotional or physical needs, when unmet, can ever justify stepping outside the relationship. We confront the treacherous path of vulnerability that can lead to inappropriate connections, emphasizing the power and necessity of open communication in steering clear of potential pitfalls.
The road to rebuilding trust is long and uncertain, but not without its signposts of hope. We explore the painstaking process of mending the fabric of a once-unblemished partnership and engage our listeners to share their voices in this ongoing dialogue on love, loss, and the possibility of a new dawn after the dark night of infidelity. Stay connected, join the conversation, and remember, every story of heartbreak and healing has its place on the Lunch with Sandy podcast.
In a relationship, when is honesty not the best policy? How do you balance what you want versus what you need, and is there something you need to say to your spouse but can't find the right way to say it? If so, then you're in the right place. This is the Lunch with Sandy podcast. With nearly 20 years of marriage under their belts, Terrance and Sandy Jackson discuss a range of topics, provide valuable insights on relationships and talk about the conversations married couples need to have. So what does lunch have to do with all of this? Well, it's a metaphor for how these conversations originally started. Speaking of conversations, let's get one going. Here's your hosts, Terrance and Sandy.
Terrance:Welcome to another episode of the Lunch with Sandy podcast, where we delve into various topics and offer insights from the perspective of a married couple. I'm Terrence.
Terrance:And I'm Sandy, and today is a wildly impactful day because we're going to be serving up a dish called infidelity. But before we dive into that, please remember to follow the lunch with sandy podcast on your favorite podcasting app, and you can also follow us along on all social media at lunch with sandy sandy how you doing today good, I don't know if I'm gonna really like this dish, though well, listen, sometimes you have to try things before you know whether or not you like them and before I get too far in today, I gotta take a moment and wish a very special happy birthday to my youngest daughter, ayla, who just turned 14 today.
Terrance:She better be my daughter.
Sandy:I think that's pretty obvious.
Terrance:Yes, she is definitely, definitely a mini me. But before we get into anything, I got a message for you.
Sandy:Well, it's funny because I was talking to Danielle on our run today about Ayla's personality and I said, oh yeah, she's definitely like me in that manner where she's cranky in the morning if she's tired. I said, but then again, she's also cranky at night if she's tired.
Terrance:So I guess she's like both of us yeah, you interrupted me when I said I had a message for you sorry, what was my message?
Sandy:stop eating all those hot dogs don't be jealous, cause I am within five. I ain't jealous Actually. Well, I guess four to six pounds of my pre-Ala weight.
Terrance:Listen, that's all on you. Look, I've told you before, whatever you know feelings or whatever situations you got going on with you, that's about you, it ain't about me. What I got to be jealous about, I'm good with me.
Sandy:Well, it's funny because I know, you know, there's BC and AD and I have a BA and AA, which is before AILA and after AILA.
Terrance:Bc is actually before Chipman. Shout out to Barry Chipman, I ain't seen him in a minute. Bc is before Chipman. Shout out to Barry Chipman, I ain't seen him in a minute.
Terrance:ABC's before Chipman. So I mentioned a little earlier that today we're going to be discussing infidelity, and when you begin to speak about infidelity or cheating, there are many words that you can actually associate with that, depending on whatever the situation is. Depending on whatever the situation is, obviously there's heartbreak, there's betrayal and sometimes even growth, which surprises many people. I can go on and on with the list, but before, but rather than do that, let's dive into the dynamics of the act of infidelity and its impact, and I think, before we can talk about the impact, I think we have to define the word infidelity, and so I'm going to give you my definition. And when I talk about my definition, I think there are some actions that are debatable as to whether or not people would say it's cheating or being unfaithful, but clearly there are some that the general population would definitely say, ok, well, that's out of bounds, that's cheating. So how do you define cheating or infidelity?
Sandy:Everything, everything.
Terrance:Listen, don't have me cut you off what?
Sandy:How are you going to cut me off?
Terrance:Define cheating or infidelity.
Sandy:Well, I don't know. I feel like there's so many things. It's physical, it's emotional, it's on so many different levels. That why I said everything so, but I I feel like that's something that you know, I'm interested to hear and talk through well like. What do you even define as physical? Is it just the sexual aspect of it? Would you consider kissing, cheating, like I'm interested there are different types of categories.
Terrance:When you start talking about, you know, cheating and infidelity and I asked you for your definition, which would be your perception. But I'm going to talk about the different. Let me get into those different types and again, keep in mind that you, you know everyone's different, so the definition is going to be different. I tried to get your definition, but we're going to, we're going to skip past that. We're not going to go there right now because we're already beyond that. So you mentioned physical right, physical. Someone physically cheats when they're engaging in sexual activities with someone other than the person they're in relationship.
Sandy:That's pretty straightforward right, well, and that's yes. I would think that that's the most straightforward answer, but then there's all the everyone's different of physical. So right like I would still consider cheating anything that is intimate but doesn't end up sexual, I guess. So now you're getting ahead.
Terrance:You're getting ahead. This is, this is so. This is why you should have defined yours when I asked you, because now I have a good definition, Cause I that's why I said everything.
Sandy:I feel like there's so many things that I define as.
Terrance:Yeah, well, right now we're talking about the physical aspects, cause I'm going through the actual types.
Sandy:Yeah, well, right now we're talking about the physical aspects, because I'm going through the actual types. Yeah, so what do you consider as physical?
Terrance:I just explained to you what physical was.
Sandy:So you're thinking just sexual, that's it.
Terrance:That's yes. Okay, I said sexual activities. Now someone may define sexual activities different. Okay. Or you can go deep into that situation, but again when you start talking about okay, well, this person cheated on me. Mm-hmm. What does that mean? There's a difference between this person cheated on me and this person kissed somebody.
Sandy:No, I consider kissing cheating on me consider kissing cheating on me.
Terrance:So you're gonna put the same amount of weight with someone kissing someone with someone actually having sex. So you're saying that there's not levels I guess, yeah, when you put it that way, exactly, exactly. So now is your opportunity. Okay, I've given you. I've given you the type I talk about physical. From the physical aspect, what do you define as actual cheating? And answer, or else I'm cutting you off.
Sandy:Well, I agree, it's the sexual activity that's definitely cheating.
Terrance:But now see, when I said kissing, you said, oh, that's cheating too. Is kissing defined as a sexual activity?
Sandy:No.
Terrance:I think, depending on who you ask, that might differ. But you just said no. But a minute ago you said if someone kisses, that's cheating on you.
Sandy:Yeah, I still agree with that.
Terrance:But to your point, I feel like there's different levels of cheating, I guess you know, so I'm not gonna jump ahead, but right now you're pushing me to another part where, uh, I would say someone would lose their mind asking you to define one of these things because right now they probably would you.
Terrance:I can see how you would drive somebody crazy. I love you to death, but I can see how you would drive somebody crazy. So if you say someone physically cheating is the someone. Physically cheating involves the acts of sex. Kissing is not a sexual action. Yeah. But kissing is cheating.
Sandy:Yeah, I guess it comes down to almost like the why when it comes down to the why.
Terrance:So let me get into it.
Sandy:I mean, like when it comes down to the why of kissing, like are you kissing because you're trying to be sexual?
Terrance:Are you kissing because it's like emotional and I feel either way it's still cheating so let me get through the actual different types, because you keep bringing up another one. You're crossing the line and I'm trying to go through the progression here, uh, and I don't think we're going to get there, I don't think I have a good definition, yeah, so here's what I'm going to do anything, and what I'm going to say is this, because this is right now you're driving me mad, you're driving me to cheat.
Terrance:right now, what I'm going to say is this Typically when you start talking about, or when the concept of cheating comes up, there's three categories that people tend to fall into. There's that physical aspect right, and that involves engaging in a sexual activity, right. Then there's that emotional aspect, where you begin to develop a deep emotional connection with someone who you're not in a relationship with. And again, when I start talking about these definitions, these are how I define them, I think for each person is different, but when I look at that, when I look at those three types, that's how I actually define that emotional um piece. And it's usually that emotionally usually doesn't involve any physical intimacy.
Terrance:so now, that might help in your definition I feel like there's even different layers of emotional, but go on yes, let me finish defining the three categories, like I said, and then you can actually speak, whatever it is you're speaking and take us through this loop that you've been trying to take us through. Let me get the categories out. Go Lastly, online engaging in romantic or sexual interactions with others online who are not your partner. Those are the three categories. Now, what is it that you Well, what is it that would bring you to say that someone cheated on you? And would they fall into any of those categories? Or do you have a four, fifth or six that's in your mind that no one else knows about?
Sandy:No, I think those are the main three. However, I guess what I didn't think about until we started conversating is that there is different layers, and I guess you know this is probably going to lead to, you know, a discussion further along. But you know, depending on which layer it is, you know it could result in how I behave afterwards. But you know, like yeah, I still think if you kiss somebody, you know and I'm not talking just like the Portuguese pecks on the cheeks either, you know like, yeah, I still think if you kiss somebody, you know, and I'm not talking just like the Portuguese pecs on the cheeks either, you know what I mean. Like that I would have considered cheating. Now, I would have considered that maybe a more basic form versus one that I want to punch you for.
Terrance:So I said that everyone defines these things differently. Yeah. And I think that what you're doing and it's, it's okay. I think that you're defining it one way, but you don't want to admit it, because I asked you if kissing was considered a sexual act and you said no more anything intimate versus it doesn't have to necessarily.
Terrance:So let me. Let me ask you this you say anything intimate versus it doesn't have to necessarily be sexual, Okay. So let me ask you this you say anything intimate. Holding hands is intimate. No, listen. So here's the thing. Everyone defines as different. What I'm trying to get is I'm trying to get you to define it for yourself, Because one minute you have a definition.
Sandy:You're making me rethink, because if you hold somebody else's hand, I'm knocking you out, because you don't even hold my hand.
Terrance:Well, first off, let's get one thing clear we don't promote or condone violence here. We don't. And second, you would never be able to knock me out and if you tried, you'd probably wake up a couple days later realizing that was a mistake. So stop with the violence and start to go through your progression and think in your mind how you would define this, because you keep coming up with new things and I'm just trying to get what it is that is going to. Let me take a step back. I'm going to say this I think your definition. You have to put more time into finding this, because I think your definition makes you a little unrational. And let me explain what I mean. Ok.
Terrance:I'll say one thing and you'll say oh, if you do that, I'm knocking you out. I say another thing oh well, you're right, but I'm knocking you out. I say another thing oh well, you're right, but I'm still knocking you out.
Sandy:The short of it is I didn't say everything in the beginning. Yeah To my defense.
Terrance:What you have to do is, in order for us to have a real conversation about this, you actually have to think to yourself and think okay, well, I have to define what this is, Because when someone, if two people, aren't on the same page right in regards to their definitions, then when something happens, you can't hold the other person accountable because you didn't have a conversation. And one person may think, hey, listen, holding hands is not a big deal. Yeah.
Terrance:And where the other person thinks, oh, listen, holding hands is not a big deal, yeah, and the other person thinks, oh, you're holding somebody's hands, I'm going to take you out. Yeah.
Sandy:So, so yeah, no, I would not like it if you were holding somebody else's hand.
Terrance:No one's at All, right, listen, but I mean like no, I know I'm trying to think of through all the levels, like basically being physical with someone.
Speaker 4:So here's what I will say. I think that there are different levels.
Terrance:When you start talking about intimacy, when you start talking about infidelity and you start talking about cheating. I don't think you can cheat 50%, so this is how you got to think about it. Yeah, either you cheated or you didn't. You can't get into. Oh, you did something with someone and that makes me very upset. That was over the line. You can do things that are over the line that aren't considered cheating. Ok. You see what I'm saying, yeah, yeah. I do I think we're going to move on.
Sandy:No, no, all right. So, thinking back, anything over the line would be, yes, kissing and any type of sexual behavior. And then the emotional aspect of it right is also in my definition cheating cheating, Although I feel like that even has its own separate layers because, like you can have an emotional relationship To me, I think there needs to be some kind of underlying, almost like physical or emotional, like want and need to make it really an emotional infidelity. And then the whole online piece yeah, like I don't know, I don't care if you watch stuff, but if you're sending things to certain people and communicating in a way to certain people. That would be my online definition of cheating.
Terrance:Yeah, I don't think from the emotional perspective. I think that, if well, let me rephrase this, let me take a step back. Have you ever heard the term? And I know you use work wife? But when you start talking about work husband and work wife and things like that, why do you think that is From an emotional perspective? You're saying you have some form of attachment to someone that is on the level of a life partner.
Sandy:So see, I don't define work wife and work husband that way. Work wife and work husband is just the person that I at work, that I talk to outside of work and that we have a friendly relationship.
Terrance:Why wouldn't that just be a friend? I?
Sandy:don't know.
Terrance:Well see, now, here's the thing.
Sandy:I guess they are on a slightly different level than everybody else.
Terrance:These are the people that I'm going to stay friends with, whether or not we work together or not so don't you think by using those titles, you're diminishing your relationship with that person you have a partnership with?
Sandy:Could be.
Terrance:I never thought about it that way, but I think it does, and it doesn't bother me because I am very confident in who I am like that you run the risk of having your actual husband or your actual wife think that they're not good enough or they're not doing something right, because now, at your job, you have you have a spouse, exactly.
Sandy:Well, does it make a difference that I have a same-sex spouse at work?
Terrance:It may. You may have some questions that you need to ask yourself, that you're afraid to answer, but that's neither here nor there. All right, so let's get back on topic. Okay, infidelity is one of those things where it's not easy for people to talk about, but it happens. And then the question becomes is there ever a justification for someone cheating? Is there ever a justification for? Someone cheating. No, I like your one word answers. Listen, people are always going to try to.
Sandy:I feel like people try to justify it in their mind.
Terrance:Yes, people always try to justify their actions with excuses or reasons. The question that I'm asking is is there ever a true justification for someone cheating? And again, keep this in mind we're not the end, all be all when we start talking about this. What we're talking about is you know, from a general perspective, we know that this happens. Is there anything that crosses your mind where you say okay, well, I understand that.
Terrance:No, okay, how about you? It's never happened to me. Well, it's never happened to me that I know of, so it's hard to answer that question. It's very difficult to say hard no. I think people's emotions get caught up in it, and I know for a fact your emotion gets caught up in it because the way you're answering directly you're not processing.
Terrance:I'm a very emotional person You're not thinking about not to say that there is something out there, but you're not thinking about all the possibilities that they end up in a situation like this, or when they end up being unfaithful right, typically they're Well, I can't even talk about typically, when someone doesn't feel that their needs are being met, that may be a reason for them to step out. When I talk about unmet needs, they could be emotional, they could be physical and, depending on what they are, they seek validation outside of the actual relationship. So let me ask you this yeah.
Terrance:I'm loving the quick one word yes, no, if you weren't doing your part from the physical or emotional perspective and you were in a relationship, do you think that would justify someone stepping out for validation from someone else? Someone stepping out for validation from someone else?
Sandy:No, I still don't think it's a justifiable reason. I understand that they feel like they're justified, but I don't think it's still a justifiable reason. If you're feeling like your needs are not being met, then you need to one have a conversation about it.
Terrance:Let's say that conversation is had.
Sandy:Okay, and if it's still not happening, then what's the point of being in the relationship?
Terrance:That is a very good answer. I mean a very good question. But let me ask you this let's say you're the one who's not meeting the needs. Let's say the conversation is had.
Sandy:Let's say you still refuse to meet those needs well then I I still rather you leave me before you cheat on me why are you keeping that person in a relationship then, if you're not going to actually meet the?
Terrance:and listen, I don't condone. I don't condone cheating. What I'm trying to do is I'm trying to get you to think about this right, I get you.
Sandy:But like what if I can't physically meet the needs? Like you know what I mean.
Terrance:Why? Why wouldn't you be able to physically meet the needs I?
Sandy:don't know. People have all kinds of medical issues Like what if it can't be met?
Terrance:What about the mental aspect? Of it.
Sandy:And yeah, but I mean back to the physical one. So does that mean, just because I can't physically meet those needs anymore, that it's okay for you to just go do what you want to do? No, and if you feel like that that's what you need, then take me out of the equation. That's how I feel. Or you know, let's go to the store and find something that we can both, you know, enjoy together, right Before it gets to that level.
Terrance:You just make sure you do your part. I've done a little research on this, but another one that's used is when someone feels vulnerable, and let me explain what I mean from the perspective of vulnerable. It's not so much that, ooh, take advantage of me, it's more of you know, during times of duress or stress, or you know a bad patch in a relationship, or you're feeling lonely and you have that work husband who saddles up to the side of you to offer you some support, Some work support, Some work support, Some work support. You see where those work husbands and them work wives can actually. You know the thing about. That is the one thing that and I don't want to go too off topic with this the one thing that you want to keep in mind. If someone classifies himself as a work husband or work wife, you never really know what's going on in their actual head. And I think what happens sometimes is people play these games and it's all fun and games until the situation arises and bam.
Sandy:Yeah, you done cheated.
Terrance:They found you in a vulnerable spot and you done cheated.
Sandy:So you mean like somebody trying to take advantage of me?
Terrance:I'm not talking about taking advantage of you.
Sandy:I'm talking about taking advantage of a situation. Well, yeah, yeah, Like right. I'm vulnerable and they're taking advantage of the situation.
Terrance:Now there's some accountability on your part too, because you cheated.
Sandy:Well, yeah, because you always have the. You always have the ability to say no. Yeah. Like this is going too far.
Terrance:Stop, I don't know, you know what I mean Before we cross any lines. I love that sound effect. Stop, was that supposed to be a truck?
Sandy:Yeah, I guess love that sound effect, stop was that supposed to be a truck?
Terrance:yeah, I guess you know, but uh, apparently I'm not good at sound effects, no, and voices, but.
Sandy:But you know, and I, you know, and I admit it, I know that I'm probably the one, that is, one of the type of people that are just like you know, nope, nope, nope, I don't I'm gonna hit any gray area because I yeah, because I am very I'm gonna hit you with, I'm gonna hit you with, uh, something afterwards, but okay, right now we're just going through some of these common, these common excuses that people use to say okay, okay.
Terrance:Well, this is why I cheated. Another one of those is when someone is unsatisfied in the relationship, whether it's from a sexual compatibility perspective, from the frequency of satisfaction. It's just someone feels unsatisfied and so they seek satisfaction outside the relationship.
Sandy:So it's kind of like number one unmet needs right. I mean, it is To me it's like re-evaluate the relationship, then but no, there is a difference there.
Terrance:The unmet needs. That's not necessarily physical. It's physical or mental. That's not necessarily physical. It's physical or mental Unsatisfied. You know when I'm talking about not being satisfied. That is more on the sexual side.
Sandy:Okay, yeah, so again I am sticking with number one, like it's time to just reassess the relationship. And if it's not working out, where are these numbers coming from?
Announcer:Where are these numbers coming from? I don't got no numbers.
Terrance:I got no numbers on here.
Sandy:No, but that was the first one that we talked about. That's why I said number one. But anyhow, you know, again, I don't want to put anybody down for their own personal decisions or their justification in their own mind or their justification in their own mind, but in that situation it's like, well, you should have re-evaluated the relationship then, and if it means that you're not happy and you don't want to be in the relationship, then don't be in the relationship.
Terrance:Very true. Now keep this in mind, because you know it. It seems like you're coming at me. These are excuses that people use. These aren't. These aren't reasons, and you have to refute the reasons. These are excuses that people use when they end up in that situation, and one of those excuses they may say reasons is opportunity is opportunity, and what that simply means is they find themselves in the situation where the opportunity to cheat presents itself and they take advantage of it.
Sandy:Is that like, especially when people have their list?
Terrance:No, that's not when people have their list. That's a situation where, let's say, you go to someone's birthday party and somebody's throwing themselves all over you well, let's, let's. Either someone's throwing themselves all over you or all of a sudden, you know you turn around and you go in the refrigerator. You're getting yourself something to drink and when you turn back around, everybody's gone. There's a naked girl standing there.
Sandy:Oh, that's a fun part, Opportunity.
Terrance:There can be any situation where you know it's not even a situation where you thought about it prior. It's oh, there's someone coming on to me or there's a naked person here. Yeah, Opportunity, Knock, knock.
Sandy:Knock knock. Let me go take advantage of that opportunity.
Terrance:And obviously, again, all of these things are excuses.
Sandy:I feel like actually, honestly, a big excuse tends to be like oh, I was inebriated.
Terrance:Well, I mean listen, that's. I feel like a big one, but I think that's the biggest cop-out also, because if you know you were inebriated, then you know what you were doing.
Sandy:Right.
Terrance:Now let's say you black out and prior to you blacking out, you're good, you ain't doing nothing.
Sandy:Yeah, I wouldn't consider that cheating. You're blacked out and you're not.
Terrance:That's, I mean there's another word for that.
Sandy:We're not going to get into that. Yeah, let's not.
Terrance:I think all of this when we start talking about all of this.
Terrance:It's really encapsulated by this last excuse and some people will call it a reason, but it's really an excuse and it all comes down to lack of a commitment. You know what I mean. If one partner or both partners have a low level of commitment to each other, then that opens the door for promiscuity. I guess promiscuity is not the word Infidelity on both parts, but when you start talking about someone being unfaithful, but when you start talking about someone being unfaithful, there is a level of lack of commitment, and it might not be a high level, but from the perspective of what you're doing, as you're stepping out on your relationship, I think there's an issue with some commitment there. So now I think there's one more reason, though. What Go ahead? There's?
Sandy:a lot more reasons. I would feel like retribution, like if you I don't know if that you feel like your partner really upset you and you're trying to one-up them yeah, so I cover that in the next.
Terrance:We're gonna get to that because I cover that and I cover that in in the next section. But before I get to the next section, when you know, we talked about I wanted to talk about defining infidelity, which we did, and then I want to talk about. Then we talked about whether or not there was a justification. Now I want to hit you with this. You were so quick to say no, no, no, no, no. Right Yep.
Terrance:Let me ask you this question how much do you love me? No, no, answer the question. Answer the question.
Sandy:You're one of my favorite people.
Terrance:I'll take that as an answer, but that's not the actual, real answer you know, I love you a lot. What. I'm saying is this what I'm saying is this. Mm-hmm. If you're put in a situation where someone makes a mistake and you have to throw all the years of good out, you're doing it with no question.
Sandy:Just even thinking about it makes my blood boil, to be honest. But listen honestly, early in our relationship I would have said you're out Now. Not that I'm trying to give you an excuse to go do anything.
Terrance:I don't need no excuse Because.
Sandy:I don't know how I would truly react.
Terrance:And we can talk about that afterwards. But here's the reason why I'm truly react, and we can talk about that afterwards, but here's the reason why I'm saying this. What I'm saying is this If you were to sit down and ask someone these questions immediately, they're going to be like you and say no, where, from my perspective, I have to think about? You can't just say, you just can't answer Because you don't have all the information and you've got to think about okay, well, what have you built together? Yeah.
Terrance:Because now, once you think about that, you start to think about what are you going to lose or what can you possibly lose. Yeah. Is it worth throwing all that stuff away? Possibly lose, yeah. Is it worth throwing all?
Sandy:that stuff away and see, I would automatically respond with you already threw that away the moment you cheated.
Terrance:I mean you can say that, but again, you can't speak for someone else, no, I know. And the question becomes okay, well, you say I threw that all away. Right, but you're doing the same thing. You didn't do the same thing. But now what you're saying is nothing else matters. You're going to say I'm going to throw all that away, and then who do you think is going to? Actually, you don't think you're going to suffer from that of course, I think that's just, you know.
Sandy:That's honestly what the next part of the topic is, which is the fallout right. Like I can't say for certain what I would do, that's what I'm trying to get you to action is like that's it, it, I'm done, it's over. That is my knee jerk reaction.
Terrance:Yes, so I get that. That's your knee jerk reaction, but that's why we have these conversations, because that's not what I want. What we're supposed to be doing is, and what we're doing here is we're having thought provoking conversations and I'm dropping these pieces because what has to happen is you have to start thinking about. Okay, if I say that's it, my life changes.
Sandy:Yeah.
Terrance:Right, because now you got to think about it from the perspective that how you interact with family is going to change.
Sandy:Yeah, everything, like you said everything.
Terrance:So now let's talk about yeah, see, this is why I wanted you to hear that because now I want to talk about what impact infidelity can actually have on a relationship and those people who actually involved, because you know, all actions have consequences and when someone cheats, that has a huge impact. When someone cheats, that has a huge impact. When someone cheats the most immediately, right off the bat, I say there's a loss there, and that first loss is trust. It immediately goes out the window and you know how I feel Without trust. What do you actually have, right? Mm-hmm? What are some of the other things? You hit on this earlier. What are some other things that cheating can cause an impact on you?
Sandy:Oh well, first it's anger. Oh my God, I'd be so angry and be like ridiculous.
Terrance:But that's not the one you said first, it was revenge, revenge.
Sandy:It was revenge, but that wouldn't be my first reaction, the anger, and I would also put together with that, because once the anger even starts to subside, even a tiny bit, it'll also then turn into resentment. That's going to be like the initial, like immediate response, like devastation, anger, resentment. Let me ask you this all those emotional feelings, let me ask you this how those emotional feelings.
Terrance:Let me ask you this how long do you hold on to that for?
Sandy:oh, I can hold on to anger for a long time.
Terrance:Well, there's a reason why I'm asking you that right because you know, you know what I say all the time when you allow people to invoke those types of emotions in you. For long periods of time, you're giving them power over you, and that's not to say that you can't feel that way. What I'm saying is, when you hold on to it, it's only going to eat away at you.
Sandy:No, do I know that's a healthy response? Of course I know it's not healthy.
Terrance:Well, yeah, you said, do I know that's a healthy response?
Sandy:Yeah, well, I meant not healthy response, yeah, but I know myself too and I know that it would be what I would do. I would be, yeah, I'd just be insanely angry. I can't even define how angry I would be, you'd be very, very angry. Let's get past those emotions for a second.
Sandy:And then how do I react from that anger? Well, that might be one of my reactions. No, I mean, like you hurt me so bad, I'm gonna hurt you now, but listen, so let me ask you that I I hear what you're saying, what.
Terrance:What does that solve?
Sandy:Nothing.
Terrance:And how do you know that's going to actually make the actual person upset, or how do you know how that's going to make them feel? Yeah it might not, and the thing about that is now. So, right now, if that's your reaction, what makes you better than them? And I'm not saying one person's better than the other, but if you say, well, you did it first, that still doesn't make it right.
Sandy:No, it doesn't make you any better.
Terrance:Yeah.
Sandy:So let's get you know. Like I said, I recognize that it's when you go through your revenge, your revenge cheat.
Terrance:Do you feel guilty afterwards? I don't know. So let me ask you this by you doing to your partner what hurts you so bad that doesn't have an impact on you, You're you're. You're acting out of hurt, trying to hurt someone.
Sandy:Yeah, no, of course, like you know, I know what you're, where you're going, and I know it's all wrong, but that is how I'm trying.
Terrance:So this is where this is. I'm trying to help you grow without having to go through this, so you can actually grow.
Announcer:You know, in the beginning I said I said you know, sometimes growth comes out of this.
Sandy:Yeah, you know, I, yeah, I would say, anger is not a good quality to have.
Terrance:Well, yeah, let me ask you this you can make some bad decisions in anger. Let me ask you this At any point, someone cheats on you. At any point are you questioning whether or not you did something wrong, or are you worth? Are you worth it? Is it you?
Sandy:well, right, I feel like that would be the very first question in my mind why?
Terrance:after you get out. After you get out, like you know, your very first question is where's the knife? Because I gotta cut you. That's your first question you said we don't condone violence no, I I definitely don't, but I'm looking at you right now. You're fortunate that this is not a video podcast yet, because right now you might have people dialing 911.
Sandy:Why Is my anger showing?
Terrance:You've been kicking your leg, that nervous twitch in your leg the whole time we've been having this conversation.
Sandy:I told you, just even thinking about it just makes my blood boil as it is. But you know, I think this is a healthy conversation to have.
Terrance:Yeah it's healthy as long as you stop twitching, get your hands out of your pocket. I think that, from an impact perspective, people can start questioning themselves and asking themselves OK well, did I do something wrong? Is there something wrong with me? And I think it's important to know that and to know that, ok well, your actions have consequences. And this is possibly one of those consequences, because when you start to think from that perspective, maybe when you're out there and the opportunity presents itself or you know you're unsatisfied and you know you'll think about these things and that may prevent you from stepping out and preventing you from getting stabbed in the throat.
Sandy:I'm curious, though, what you think about all of it, like what, what's your immediate reaction be? Would you say, off the bat is.
Terrance:It won't be anger. So if you haven't realized by now, I'm a different breed. Yeah. The first question is why and how we got here. Yeah. And depending on how honest, that answer is right. Mm-hmm.
Terrance:That would determine where we would go from there. And again, let's talk about, you know, can we recover, and we'll save that for the can we recover perspective. But before we get to that, what I want to just say is I want to hit on two things from an impact perspective that I think everyone needs to understand when they cheat. First off, we talked about loss of trust, but at the same time, when you start talking about loss of trust, there's a loss of respect, and it's not just for your partner. It really should be for yourself as well. But the bigger part about all of this is the biggest impact is it could be the demise of your relationship. Now, that might be your goal to begin with. Right, it might be your goal to begin with, but if it's not, that's something that you have to understand.
Terrance:Now let's talk about can you actually recover? And so your question to me is what my response would be. I hear people all the time and this is why I was saying to you that they say if my partner cheats, that's it, it's over. But again, when you start to think about your relationship, and if you have had up to that point, and let's make the assumption everything has been rock solid. Of course you'll have your ups and downs, but there's never been a situation where this has happened. And it happens, bam, do you throw it all out? From my perspective, there has to be a real, honest and open conversation.
Terrance:Because, if you don't have that honest and open conversation, you're never going to know how you got to where you are, and that honesty has to come from both sides. At the same time, two of the biggest things that people have very they have a very short amount of patience and forgiveness. Yeah, Because forgiveness doesn't mean we're all good, we're back together. But again, you know how I feel when you hold something against someone. Mm-hmm.
Terrance:You know they say I always say forgive, don't forget. But forgiveness is huge because if you've had this love for this person, you've had it for a reason. Yeah. Things change, but that doesn't throw away everything that you've done or everything that you've been through or everything that you've built up to that point. So for me, it's really about having that discussion and seeing okay, well, how do we get here now? How we got there? Your reason might be shit, you know what I mean. Yeah, but I have to hear that first.
Sandy:Yeah.
Terrance:Before I can make a judgment. I have to hear that, Because if I don't hear that, then what do we ever have?
Sandy:So, to be honest, I would love to say that I feel like I could be the bigger person and, depending on the situation, we could potentially work through it. However, at the same time, that's where I question myself Could I ever forgive, like I don't know, like could I ever get over it?
Terrance:So now I should question how much do you really love me?
Sandy:And still a lot Like that's the problem, right? So listen, let me give you some. If I didn't love you and you cheated on me, then I probably could forgive.
Terrance:So let me ask you this question Now. I'm going to put you in a catch-22 right now.
Sandy:Okay, go for it. Have you ever been cheated on? Yeah?
Terrance:Have you ever gotten back with a person who has cheated on you?
Sandy:No.
Terrance:No. No are you being honest right now? I'm being honest okay, I won't throw no names out there. I won't throw no names. So let me ask you this, and this is a whole no, I'm is cheating the worst thing that someone can do to you well, I guess, besides, no, I guess not, no, it's not there's a lot of physical, mental stuff that can happen besides cheating. Now.
Sandy:Outside of cheating.
Terrance:I should say. So the point that I'm trying to make is I know that there are situations and I'm not talking about you where people put themselves through, or put through hell, yeah, and they return to hell yeah, and they return to those situations and they stay yeah and I guess what I'm trying to figure out is and again, I don't condone any of this I'm trying to figure out how do you justify that situation as opposed to the other situation?
Terrance:right, you get what I'm saying. Yeah, well, as opposed to the other situation. You get what I'm saying.
Sandy:Yeah, well, I feel, like the other situations, it could be more about being scared.
Terrance:No, do you know what I mean? I get that and I want to take that and put that to the side. Well, that's what.
Sandy:I was going to say, though it elicits different responses.
Terrance:Yeah.
Sandy:You know what I mean. Depending on the situation, it elicits different responses. You know what I mean, depending on the situation. So it's like well, which of your own internal response is where you can cut the line? What can you forgive versus what can you not? You know.
Terrance:Yeah. So here's what I'm going to do, because it doesn't seem that you're there yet. I'm going to give you some things that I believe can help recover. That's not save, but help recover from a situation. The first thing, like I said, having that open and honest discussion and conversation.
Sandy:Which is funny because I ended up reading an article today about Jay-Z cheating on Beyonce.
Terrance:That was a while ago, it was.
Sandy:It was like I don't know 2016.
Terrance:You just not heard about that.
Sandy:No but he, I guess, talked about the rationale on it, and part of it was having to delve into himself and understanding his own why, and that sometimes people don't want to go that deep within themselves to understand that so regardless, you.
Terrance:You know why? Because, regardless of what, why you come up with yeah it's just an excuse right you're rationalizing something in your mind for why you hurt someone, and being honest about it is what you should be, but ultimately you have to understand I hurt you. Yeah.
Terrance:It was a mistake, ba-ba-ba-ba-ba-ba-ba-ba-ba. So having that open and honest conversation is key, but what I just said also is key you got to take responsibility for your actions. Before anyone can start to look at a situation and say, okay, I need to forgive this person, you have to first take responsibility for your actions. You can't expect someone to forgive you if you're not willing to be accountable or to hold yourself accountable.
Sandy:Yeah, and I honestly I do think the person who does cheated, how they respond to that person's hurt, I think would have a big impact on whether a couple could get through it or not. Yeah, so because if you're just like yeah, I cheated, like and you make no effort or try to understand that, they are going to go through different stages of anger, of resentment, of like those things, in that you have to put in probably a hundred times more effort than you did in the beginning of your relationship.
Terrance:Yeah, and I'm gonna break it down for you. I'll make it simple. You got to be realistic. Yeah.
Terrance:It's going to be hard. You have to understand that that person has to go through all of those phases that you just mentioned and they go through them on their own timeframe. That's why I said patience and forgiveness and that patience is on both sides. But the bigger part is, you know, the person who did the deed has to understand look, things aren't going to go back to the way they were like that. They may never go back to the way they were like that. They may never go back to the way they were. But if this is something that you actually want, got to be realistic. It's going to be hard. You got to put a lot of effort in and even with all that effort, you might not get back to actually where you were.
Sandy:Yeah, Because I was going to say I could even see it being cyclical, Like right, Like you get to a point in your relationship where everything is okay. But it could also now become like a trigger for that person and it could be even something so slight that is going to trigger them and set them back.
Terrance:Yeah, well, that's why you got to work on rebuilding trust. Right. And that is going to take a consistent effort. And again you got to be realistic. You might think that you're putting enough effort into it, but it's not based on what you're doing.
Sandy:Right, you did the deed. The other person might not think.
Terrance:And again, that's part of being realistic. Part of being realistic is understanding that all that effort might be for nothing.
Sandy:Yeah.
Terrance:But if you think that that person is worth it, you go through that understanding that this is what you have to do.
Sandy:And I would say that would be the only way I could see coming out the end, out of the end, out of all of it. Fine is the amount of effort that would go into it. It wouldn't be like, oh, I gave you 100%, like 200% of my effort for two weeks. You should have forgiven me now. Yeah, and you know what else Like you have to understand that everything is going to be based on.
Terrance:It's not your time frame. It's not yours, it's theirs. Now what I will say is this it's not your time frame, it's not yours, it's theirs. Now what I will say is this it's not your time frame, but at some point you're going to have to make a decision. And let me explain what I mean If it's been 10 years, listen you're going to have to make a decision.
Sandy:Is it worth progressing and trying to rebuild this or, to your point, is it the demise of the relationship?
Terrance:Yeah, there's two things that I want to say. Okay about recovery before before we wrap up, first, you now have to make sure that you set clear boundaries and expectations, because maybe it was because you didn't have those boundaries to begin with but, now, after going through a situation, got to set them to be clear and hold people to them.
Terrance:Right, if you don't want a repeat of what happened, lay it out. This is how it's going to be, this is what it needs to be, and then you can only do this if both parties are willing. You have to work on rebuilding that emotional connection you got to work on restoring that bond and that intimacy, because if you can't do that, then you really don't have a shot of getting close to where you were. Well, yep to where you were.
Sandy:Well, yep, and I think the important part about that one is being open, honest and, like you said, realistic, even on the how did we get here, what happened? And I think both parties need to take a look at themselves. It's not, mind you, the person who cheated right, they were wrong, they took it to the next level, right. But I think the person who was cheated on still has to look at themselves when that partner might say, well, I was not being satisfied or certain needs weren't being met. You know, and I tried having a conversation. Maybe you didn't try having a conversation, I don't know, or maybe they did.
Sandy:Or maybe they did, maybe they didn't. That's what I mean. Like you, you then have to take a look at yourself and be like okay, how did I also let this get to this point? It could be a situation where it was like it was nothing that you could have done.
Terrance:Well, I think it's important. You said something very important. It's not how did I let this situation happen, it's more, how did I end up in this situation? Yeah, Because you're not letting someone go step out, but you may have some culpability, and I'm not saying that you do and I.
Sandy:You may have some culpability and I'm not saying that you do and I want people to understand that In the relationship you have culpability, exactly.
Terrance:In the position that you're actually in from the perspective of okay, well, sometimes a rat is a rat, yeah, right, right. Sometimes people give you signs, you may ignore them. Right, yeah, sometimes you may do some things or be in situations where there are signs and you ignore them.
Sandy:Right, exactly.
Terrance:Those are the things that you have to speak with yourself and have questions with. Ultimately, repairing a relationship after infidelity requires a willingness to confront difficult emotions, communicate openly and work together towards building trust and intimacy together towards building trust and intimacy. While the process may be challenging, it is possible for couples to emerge stronger and more resilient if both parties are committed to the journey of healing and growth. Thank you for joining us on the Lunch with Sandy podcast. Please be sure to follow us and leave feedback on your favorite podcasting app as well as social media. Until next time, stay well.
Announcer:That's it for this week's episode of the Lunch with Sandy podcast. Thanks for listening. We'd love to hear your feedback and comments on Instagram, TikTok and Twitter at Lunch with Sandy, and be sure to follow us on your favorite podcast app. If you enjoyed the show, don't forget to rate and review us. Thanks again for listening to the Lunch with Sandy podcast.
